China feeling it hardcore? I really can't imagine that being the case. Which leader is really going to put their money with their mouth is and threaten to boycott Chinese industry if they don't start acting? None. And China know it.

Post Last Updated:04.12.2007 at 01.05

I'm not trying to be all argumentative, I guess I'm just trying to bring a different perspective to this forum, to suggest maybe things aren't actually as bad as they first seem.

Kaz, the prevention of further damage to the environment can certainly happen without signing Kyoto, there is absolutely no doubt about that. However, Kyoto is more than a contract, it's an agreement of countries to work together and it is a message to the world that now Australia is going to do it's utmost to do it's part. At the very least it's motivation to act now.

Kyoto is a legally binding contract, but if it wants to get everyone on board for 2012 then crippling Canada's economy isn't going to be the best advertisement to come and join in the fun. I think we'll have to put this down to the age old practise of Let's Wait and See. Even if the fines are paid, is that really so bad? Money is the ultimate motivator, and if individual companies are fined or if taxes are raised - then they will be totally motivated to cut their emissions. Suddenly those who do cut their emissions have an advantage over their competitors. Yes, it will totally suck at the start, but people sometimes have to feel the pain before they'll get their act into gear. If people were compelled to do the right thing, then we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.

Daniel, you are right about no one willing to boycott China. That'll never happen. You've got to think about it as different levels, China's industry is all full steam ahead/up 'n' attem, but at a different level China's government wants to be taken seriously as an adult and respected by other countries - not everything is about money. China now has an internal struggle that Australia helped cause. I'm happy to pay higher taxes or purchase products for more if it means China could start taking some serious steps to stop filling the air with so many carbons.

this may seem stupid, and its just my conspiracy theory but basically, wasn't the united nations created my America? yet America havnt signed, with everyone limiting there production countries such as America and china will have reduced competition and thus will be able to jack up prices? i haven't really done any research on this? is that possible?

Adam: i understand where your coming from and i love hearing the other side of the story, the thing is, i believe if everyone was informed about Kyoto and its consequences the majority of Australia would be against it, most liberal supporters are already against it and as for labor voters most of them ( not all, but many )think its just a way of supporting environment but theres more, if the people that voted labor to get an extra 4 dollars on their unemployment benefits ( unfortunately there are many of them too) where to find out that there energy bills would be going up by 5 dollars, they may change their minds

i agree the environment is a big issue, but kyoto isnt the way to solve it

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but at a different level China's government wants to be taken seriously as an adult and respected by other countries

Do they? Do they even need to be? They've bought up half of Africa, and without the moralising that we ourselves would do, and have secured themselves a massive chunk of the world's future. What benefit would they get from being taken seriously? How would we treat them differently? And doesn't it really juxtapose with their capitalist dictatorship? I can't imagine a China that really cares about doing something (at this stage their more likely to want to appear to be doing something) provided it doesn't hold back foreign investment and their own exports. As long as they're such a massive economy, and they don't go to war with us, then they needn't care about our perceptions.

Just caught the 7.30 report. Julia Gillard (and I thought it was grating to listen to Rudd) is proposing 100 megabit Internet connections for schools. Where the heck is Australia going to get the money for that from? And what could schools possibly need that capability for?

I don't know but I think it's time to go back to school, I need to download some stuff!

our school internet is perfectly fine, bit slow at times but manageable, labor needs my mum to tell them " money doesnt grow on trees u no!"

Next major issue from me the (not mentioned) election promise of saying sorry. Personally I really object to saying sorry to a stolen generation that wasn't stolen at all.

you cant say sorry for something you didnt do? and what is sorry going to achieve anyway?